I spent the day last Monday at the United Nations by invitation of the Bhutanese government (along with about 600 other guests). The event was called “High Level Meeting on Well-being and Happiness: Defining a New Economic Paradigm.” I thought, “It must not be very high-level if I am invited.” Nonetheless, there I was among 600 activists, economists, NGO workers, bankers, et al from around the world, listening to speeches by prime ministers and Nobel laureates. Except for the monks, I was the only man not wearing a necktie. But that wasn't what disturbed me about the meeting.
Let me give you a bit of background. In 1972, the King of Bhutan, Jigme Singye Wangchuck, remarked that, instead of gross national product (GNP), the nation should strive for “gross national happiness” (GNH). I believe he meant merely to point out that GNP (or GDP, as is more commonly used today) is a poor indicator of a nation's well-being. The concept of gross national happiness had traction, though, and it wasn't long before psychologists and economists were trying to come up with metrics to put a number on the concept. Adding impetus to this effort was a growing awareness among social critics that GDP is a very poor indicator of a people's well-being. In the United States, real per-capita GDP has risen three-fold since the 1950s, but people are not three times happier by any measure. If anything, they are less happy.
Goods and Growth
That GDP and happiness are poorly correlated actually presents a deep challenge to economic dogma. Economics associates GDP closely with “utility” – that is, with “goodness.” After all, you won't buy something with your hard-earned cash if it doesn't benefit you, right? If, for example, you decided to sacrifice some of your leisure time in order to buy a new car, that must mean the car will make you happier than that extra hour of leisure every day. In a free market, two parties won't make an exchange if it is not to their mutual benefit. Therefore, say the economists, the more exchanges being made, the more total benefit is being had. That is why, in economics, it is those things that are exchanged for money – and only those things – that are called “goods.”
The fact that economists were at the podium questioning the equivalence of happiness and GDP is a hopeful sign, a sign of a deep crack in the foundation of the economics discipline. But it is one thing to say there is more to happiness than economic growth; it is quite another to propose that economic growth is inimical to generalized happiness. None of the speakers advocated an end to growth – that would be called, in the present vocabulary, economic stagnation or recession. Instead, they invoked, again and again, “sustainable development,” a phrase I must have heard 30 times. The main message seemed to be, “Of course we will continue to have economic growth and sustainable development, but alongside it we should adopt policies that foster the well-being that GDP doesn't measure.”

The Federal Palace Restaurant in Hong Kong offers this advice on happiness. Photo credit: Guy Kawasaki/Erno Hannink. Used under Creative Commons license.
Economic growth is sacrosanct for a reason: without it, our money system disintegrates. Because money is created as interest-bearing debt, without growth, debt tends to rise faster than the ability to service it. For a time, borrowers can be lent even more money with which to service their debts while they wait for the return of growth; but if growth doesn't return, they will go bankrupt. As this process proceeds, debt-to-income ratios rise, wealth concentrates in fewer and fewer hands, and a Marxian crisis of capital looms: a vicious circle of falling wages or employment, shrinking demand, falling profits, more layoffs, and so on. In times of high growth, a portion of that growth can go to enrich the owners of capital, and everyone else can get richer, too. But when growth slows, there isn't enough wealth left for “everyone else” after the interest has been paid.
So it is in Europe today: “Austerity” means that more and more of a nation's income will go toward debt service, and more and more of its assets will be transferred to its creditors. And if growth doesn't resume, this process will never end until the entire population are paupers. Around the world, whether for nations or for individuals, financial policymakers adhere to the same plan: Grow your way out of debt. The only alternative is some sort of redistribution of wealth – through debt forgiveness, for example, through inflation, or through Gesellian negative-interest economics. There is no alternative that preserves the wealth of those who have wealth.
Thus it was that, at the conference and in the World Happiness Report that accompanied it, while there were a few nods to the ecological limits of growth, there was no mention of addressing Third World debt, consumer debt, or the financial system that depends on it. This was the coal pile in the ballroom – obvious but unmentionable, for acknowledging it would mean, inescapably, a radical transformation of our entire society. The circles represented at this “high level” conference have not reached the point yet of countenancing anything as radical as ending the debt system. But they will soon. As ecosystems and cultures unravel, the party isn't as much fun anymore even for those at the top.
Debt and the Erosion of Well-Being
Without addressing debt, I'm afraid the world won't make much progress in happiness. You see, it is not only that GDP and GNH are not equivalent; further growth in GDP cannot even happen without eroding the basis of human well-being on Earth. What exactly happens when GDP grows? GDP is defined as the sum total of goods and services exchanged for money. So, if neighbors look after each other's children, no service is rendered; it only becomes a service when they pay for day care instead. If a culture practices subsistence farming on communal land, no goods are being produced. The food only becomes a good when they sell it to each other; so, too, the land when they divide it into private property and rent it out. Any potential to monetize what was once free is a business opportunity, a lending opportunity. Without such opportunities, banks cannot lend new money into existence. Without new money, the old debts quickly become unpayable. And because the new money comes along with even more debt, the system always needs to grow; the realm of goods and services needs always to expand.
So here is a dilemma: The way the realm of goods and services expands is by transforming nature and social relationships – the very things that the World Happiness Report cites as essential to happiness – into products and services. In order to keep the financial system functioning, we are destroying the basis of human well-being.
Here are some of the many examples of how economic growth policies directly destroy the essentials of happiness. Economic growth turns social reciprocity and gift relationships (two components of GNH) into paid services. It converts pristine ecosystems into sources of timber or minerals. It converts silence into noise, starry skies into urban lights, kitchen gardens into supermarket purchases, mom's cooking into fast food takeout. It replaces the village storyteller with the TV cartoon, mothering with day care, outdoor play with video games. A society that still has these former things intact, and meets its needs without much money, is called, by economists, an “undeveloped market.” The process of liquidating social and natural capital is called “development.” Clearly, our conception of sustainable development is begging for scrutiny.
It is not enough to call for education, national pride, or religious teachings to stem the tide of globalization when the money system drives that tide. When rural youth leave the farm for the slums of Cairo or Bangkok, the glamorized images of Western consumption that draw them usually have an ally in economic conditions. Possibly, it is that local produce cannot compete with imports thanks to free trade policies and perverse subsidies for mechanized agriculture and transport. And what is behind the free trade policies, the subsidies? We would like to blame greed, but, at the bottom, I find something more banal – the pressure to pay the bondholders, or to get an extra half-percent return on investment, or to reduce a fiscal deficit. Debt pressure is endemic to the system, and it pushes the commoditization and marketization of everything and everyone. Ecological protection, cultural diversity, local agriculture, and fair trade are all under assault when nations are forced to liquidate natural resources, to convert agriculture to commodity production, to open markets and eliminate protections on labor in order to keep servicing their debts to the international banking system. The effects of debt pressure reach into personal life in wealthy countries, too. We would like to enjoy more leisure (listed in the report as important for happiness), but how can we when we have student loans to pay, credit cards, mortgage debt?
At the conference, Swami Atmapriyananda recited an old teaching story about a fisherman lounging at the wharf. A businessman comes up and asks why he isn't out there fishing. “I already caught enough today to feed my family.”
“But if you fish more, you could sell the fish and make money.”
“Why would I want to do that?”
“With the money, you could buy more boats and hire other people to man them.”
“Why would I want to do that?”
“Well, then you could make even more money and retire.”
“Why would I want to do that?”
“Then you could spend your days lounging on the wharf and only fishing as much as you pleased.”
“But that's what I'm doing right now.”
During the Q&A at the end of the conference I offered a variation to this story. The businessman tells the fisherman he could make more money. “Why would I want to do that?” Because if you don't, you won't be able to make your debt payments and I will seize your boat!
In summary, debt drives growth, and growth drives debt. This system erodes many of the things that are essential to human happiness – such as community, leisure, and nature – but as long as there is room for new growth, the system can keep going. Today, though, we are running out of nature to convert into goods – the planet just cannot sustain much more exploitation. We are also running out of social relationships that aren't yet monetized. This crisis of growth has been delayed for many decades through colonialism and technology, extending the domain of money, but it is upon us now. The result is rising indebtedness and growing misery, as each extension of growth comes at higher and higher cost.
Human Nature and the Easterlin Paradox
A key paradox in the field of happiness research illuminates this situation. Known as the Easterlin Paradox, it observes that, while national happiness doesn't rise with national income, nonetheless, within a nation, those with higher incomes are generally happier than their compatriots; moreover, wealthier nations generally rank higher in measures of happiness than poorer nations. With a few notable exceptions (Costa Rica, Thailand), the happiest countries on Earth are the Western industrialized democracies.
How to explain this paradox? One might critique the findings of the report on methodological and conceptual grounds. For example, could “happiness” signify different things in different cultures? Perhaps it has taken on associations of Western-style “success.” Or, perhaps, it only measures how people compare themselves to a socially constructed standard. The accepted explanation for the paradox is that people are, by nature, competitive and are, therefore, unhappy when they see people around them who are wealthier than they are. If that is the explanation, one can only shrug one's shoulders. Absent totalitarian communism, people will always vary in their abilities and fortune. At best, it suggests the prescriptions of mainstream political liberalism – more equitable distribution and welfare state services to ameliorate the effects of disparities. The economists present were comfortable with this level of change which, admittedly, in the current political environment, is already beyond the pale. I would be happy if the liberals got their way, but they will not. We cannot afford it – if “afford” means, as it does today, to keep the wealth of the creditor class intact. Along with everybody else, the liberals are working against debt pressure, which conspires to erode the social safety net and intensify wealth concentration still further. There is no escaping the need for systemic monetary reform.
The dynamics of growth and debt reveal another, more disturbing explanation for the Easterlin Paradox. The reason that lower-income nations are unhappier is simply that the basis of happiness there has been strip-mined, converted to money, and exported to creditor nations. And, of course, within these creditor nations it is the same – only a very few people enjoy the benefits. Most people there are debtors, as well, and suffer from the same depletion of the natural and social capital.

Where does happiness fit in life? Photo credit: Paul Downey. Used under Creative Commons license.
When the elements of well-being have been stripped from a culture, when its communities, its traditions and stories, its relationship to the land, its cultural identity, its natural resources are all gone, then its people have only money left to sustain themselves. Basic human needs do not change; but when an economy is monetized, the many ways its people meet these needs collapse into one way – money. Once that has happened, of course, it is true that happiness will depend on money. So, the explanation for the Easterlin Paradox is not that we compare ourselves to our fellows and are envious of their success; it is that the success of one comes at the expense of another. One man's wealth is another man's debt.
From this perspective, it is clear why economic growth doesn't increase happiness. If monetary transactions merely replace things that have been lost, they won't increase “utility” or well-being at all. For example, if I take your land and sell it back to you, if I destroy your culture and sell you entertainment, if I destroy systems of reciprocal labor and force people to buy and sell labor, if I pollute or privatize the water so that you have to pay for potable water, if I destroy your indigenous systems of healing and learning so that you must pay for medicine and education, if I impose debt on a population so that people must pay to even exist, then no one is actually better off. Instead, we have a situation where a shrinking minority can obtain at least the measurable factors of happiness, while the majority can't even obtain those. And this state of affairs is irremediable, as long as we are stuck in a scarcity-inducing, debt-based money system.
Measuring Happiness
It is not surprising that the economists and dignitaries couldn't acknowledge how fundamental this crisis actually is. They are, after all, deeply invested in the present system. But even the most conservative among us sense, I think, that superficial efforts to promote happiness are doomed, that some inexorable force is working against them. Though they might respond to this helplessness with pretense or cynicism, there is hope, too. Some of the speakers were from outside government and academia, and when they enunciated principles wholly at odds with mainstream economic philosophy, the audience came alive – professors, World Bank employees, NGO workers, and grass roots activists alike. If nothing else, the conference was significant for bringing such voices into a high-level conversation on economics.
There was, at the conference, an undercurrent of radicalism that would have supported a deeper critique. It surfaced a few times: Costa Rican president Laura Chinchilla mentioned the need to reconceive what development is; Dr. Vandana Shiva spoke of the horrendous effects of economic development on Indian agriculture and questioned whether happiness can really be measured; Dasho Karma Ura spoke of the “joy of slowness,” the value of silence in nature, and other things fundamentally inimical to development as we know it. “In the GNH paradigm,” said Dasho Karma Tshiteem, “time is life, not money.”
One after another, the Western professors at the podium proclaimed, “Happiness is something we can measure,” and each attendee received a 100+ page World Happiness Report ranking the happiness level of each country according to a variety of measurements. While I had questions about the methodology and unexamined assumptions behind the data, my main question was, “Why is it so important to measure happiness?”
For one thing, if happiness can be measured, and if we understand the purpose of government to be maximizing the happiness of its people, then we can continue to apply the same mindsets and methods of the technocrat to governance, merely replacing GDP with a quantified measure of GNH. This would fulfill Jeremy Bentham's 200-year-old ambition to make a science of governance. For a long time, we have sought through economics, political “science,” and the “social sciences” generally to engineer a more perfect society. If only we could be more rational, more scientific! Running society becomes something like a math problem.
Members of the intellectual establishment will not give up this ambition easily, for their careers are dedicated to it, valorized by it. If social engineering has largely failed, perhaps that is because we aren't doing it well enough. We need better data! If GDP is flawed, let's replace it with a new measure. That the whole ambition to quantify everything and to base decisions on the maximizing of a number is insane does not occur to them, for it lies at the foundation of a a 400-year-old intellectual tradition going back at least to Galileo. In science, only the measurable is real.
Even more alien to the technocrat would be the notion that the progressive quantification of the world is hostile to human happiness. Today we see the encroachment of the realm of money, of the commodity, of property, into the domains of the commons and the gift. We might add to Dasho Karma Tshiteem's observation and say that only when we measure time can the equation “time is money” take hold. Perhaps it is the immeasurable that is key to happiness. Proposals for GNH metrics seek to measure the number of one's social relationships; but can it measure their quality? We might measure leisure time, but can we distinguish hours spent in mindless dissipation from those spent in intimate connection? The danger, in making choices by the numbers, is that we develop those things that can be measured and neglect those that cannot. That is why, on a personal level, it is foolish to make choices based on money. On a collective level, too, that is why we have so many huge but ugly buildings, copious but unnourishing calories, pervasive but impersonal entertainment. And it is why those outside the measurement systems – such as the indigenous and other species – have been sacrificed on the altar of growth.

Happiness isn't a product that can be measured, bottled, and sold. Photo credit: Jarno. Used under Creative Commons license.
To be fair, the desire to measure happiness is well-motivated. While I didn't hear it explicitly stated, a natural next step after establishing a GNH measure would be to monetize it, in the sense of internalizing costs that are presently externalized onto our well-being. For example, if we decide that healthy ecosystems are important to happiness, we could tax their depletion. Some of the economists present at the meeting advocate just this. Robert Costanza, for instance, is a leading figure in ecological economics who advocates the valuation of “ecosystem services.” Once so valued, we can easily manage their use through green taxes and similar measures. I sympathize with this idea of finding ways to make products and processes that involve the despoliation of the planet prohibitively expensive. We must also keep in mind, however, that the immeasurable might be even more precious. Without this awareness, we risk committing monstrous acts. What if, for instance, we assign a value to a certain rare species of turtle, and find that the revenue generated by paving over its last habitat and building strip malls exceeds that value?
I am not sure whether, ultimately, the designs of the economists can be consistent with the spiritual teachings that certain of the monks brought to the conference. It seemed that the economists were salivating to get their hands on a new arena of utility-maximization. Even if their motivation is to apply the tools of their trade for the good, those tools are based on a worldview that has unhappiness built into it. It might, in this case, be as Audre Lord said: “The master's tools will never dismantle the master's house.”
Human Nature and Selfishness
Primary among the axioms of economics is the assumption of selfishness – that human beings seek to maximize their rational self-interest, at least in most situations. After all, if you have a choice between paying more and paying less, you pay less. Everyone tries to get the best deal. Yet some of the spiritual leaders at the meeting enunciated a very different conception of human nature. They spoke of the interconnected nature of being and, drawing applause from the audience, of the importance of altruism and loving-kindness as a basis for happiness.
The World Happiness Report, however, was more equivocal. True, it devoted a brief section to the correlation between altruism and happiness, citing studies that show that people who volunteer tend to be happier than those who do not; but it also argued that people's own happiness diminishes when the people around them increase their income. Consider the following passage in the report:
But the more general finding is that comparator's income reduced happiness and this has been strikingly confirmed in many laboratory experiments. One neuroscience experiment involved the task of guessing the number of dots on a screen. Good guesses were rewarded by a monetary payment. Each subject was paired with another subject, and after each of the 300 trials the subject was told the accuracy of his own guesses and the associated income he would receive, as well as the same information for his “pair.” At the same time fMRI scans measured the blood oxygenation in the subject's relevant reward center (the ventral striatum). Blood oxygenations responded strongly to both the subject's own income (positively) and to the pair's income (negatively). The negative effect of the pair's income was at least two thirds as large as the positive effect of the subject's own income.
What are we to make of this? One might conclude that, just as economists tell us, human beings are indeed motivated by self-interest, and that this self-interest generally corresponds to money. Moreover, happiness measures also correlate fairly strongly with income. But, we might also ask, in what situation is it normal to envy the success of another person or to gloat over their failure? It is normal in a competitive situation, and our money system immerses us in perpetual competition. Because money is created through lending at interest, there is always more debt than there is money. We are always in competition for never-enough of it. The more monetized a society in which we live, the more this condition colors our perceptions, so that, quite naturally, we accept it as human nature.
Perhaps selfishness is not human nature; perhaps it is an artifact of our system. Someone recently told me a story about an anthropologist who put a basketful of sweet fruit near a try and told some children that whoever got there first would win the fruits. The children all joined hands and ran there together. When the anthropologist asked them why, they responded, “How can one of us be happy if all the other ones are sad?” Perhaps this, and not the above social psychology experiment, exemplifies human nature. Or, perhaps, human nature is not an immutable absolute, but arises through the the interplay of biology and culture.
In a gift-based culture, it is obvious that each person's well-being depends on the well-being of others. In a usury-based culture, it is not so obvious. Your misfortune is my good fortune, because that's one less competitor for never-enough money. When one is in debt, it is hard to experience the “joy of slowness” that Dasho Karma Ura spoke of. For many people I know, debt is a powerful source of stress. Marriages fall apart because of it, health breaks down. Recently, an elderly man in Greece even killed himself to escape his debts. There is academic research demonstrating a correlation between debt and psychological distress.1
Barriers to Interbeing
Why wasn't debt and the money system mentioned in the conference? It is all well and good to voice lofty intentions to uphold the things that the debt system is destroying, but if that system isn't addressed as well, those intentions will never be kept. I am not surprised that it wasn't mentioned, because the money system lies at the heart of today's world order. To advocate creating money in a different way than through interest-bearing debt is heresy. Economists, in particular, are wedded to this system, so I was not surprised that they didn't highlight its incompatibility with so many of their criteria for happiness. The best they could do was to say, “High income does make people happy, but other things do, too. Therefore, we must pay attention to these other things even as we strive for continued economic growth.”
One might easily say that the economists have hijacked the Gross National Happiness movement, neutering its implicit radical critique of economic growth. They seem to have turned it away from the deeper questions, not only regarding the money system, but also the worldview upon which it rests – the reductionistic philosophy of measurement, number, and control, and the vision of a world of separate, competing selves. Yet even they resonate with teachings that run counter to that worldview. Perhaps they are doing the best they can, within the limits of their operating paradigms, to bring about a more beautiful world.
Unfortunately, these operating paradigms doom such efforts to failure. It is not just the money system that is at stake here. Underlying our debt-based system is a certain view of human nature, human identity, and our relationship to nature that is, like the money system, in crisis. A system that engenders competition makes sense in a world of discrete, separate selves, striving first and foremost to survive and reproduce in a world of Other. But that sense-of-self is becoming obsolete; many of the religious speakers talked of the interconnected nature of being, of interbeingness, of the larger We. Even the economists acknowledged the importance of connections and community for happiness. But when we have a money system that fosters endemic disconnection, any efforts to promote happiness will be fighting an uphill battle. We saw what happened when the sincere intentions of Rio ran up against financial reality, and its hopefully promises came to nought. Let's not repeat that mistake. It is time to confront the fact that our spiritual values, which are evolving toward oneness or interconnection, are at odds with our institutions, which embody separation. Our economic institutions are chief among them, and cannot be excluded from the happiness conversation.
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1 See for example S. Brown et al. / Journal of Economic Psychology 26 (2005) 642–663. The researchers disaggregated debt from income and assets. Savings have a positive correlation with reported life satisfaction, but not as strong as the negative correlation between debt and life satisfaction.
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This is a great article. Could it be that we are asking the wrong questions? Why would we need to measure happiness? Why to try to link happiness to GDP? Could it be that the need for GDP growth is related to the need for the interest? Without growth the monetary sytem will lack the 'money' for the interest. This article raises the fundamental questions that the economics theory should be asking and answering. But what if economics keeps giving the right answers to the wrong questions?
Interesting title for a conference: UNhappiness Summit...
Beautifully written per usual...that you were invited to the UN to speak about economics shows that the current economic profession is on its last legs. The End of Growth is the reality we must confront. So glad you didn't sport the suit and tie. Keep up the truly amazing work!
"Science only deals with observable reality; it just happens that most observable things are measurable."
I take issue with this statement. How does science answer the following questions, some of which are very observable and very "unmeasurable" (at least in scientific terms).
How much do I love my family?
How beautiful is that sunset?
How ugly do I feel right now?
How happy are you?
How sad are you? (You can't be 10 milli-happies)
The best science can do is provide proxies - proxies as Charles describes as not working too well for us.
I did write "most things", Chris. As opposed to, you know, "all things". How do you define love, anyway? Beauty? Ugliness? Happiness? Sadness? How do you expect anyone to find the right answers when the questions aren't clear yet?
Also, your problem appears to be with the "science" of economics. Which, as I pointed out, is *not actually a science*, since it's based on a bunch of beliefs that are proven wrong by history, statistics and neuroscience.
Something new and better has to replace traditional economics. That doesn't mean throwing reason out the window is a good idea. Especially nowadays, with all the hard problems facing humankind.
There is a logical flaw in your reasoning.
'Because money is created as interest-bearing debt, without growth, debt tends to rise faster than the ability to service it.'
The premise is that growth is incompatible without an expanding money supply. Growth in a fixed monetary system would see more products being created but with the same volume of money, meaning prices would go down... this is 'good' deflation, think of the cost of technology as an example.
So is there no lending in a deflationary world because the interest on the debt would need to come from more money? No. The interest would be covered by the profits the company makes from selling its products.. it is not logically necessary that the amount of money has to increase to accommodate the interest on the debt.
Just think about the multi hundred year periods in the UK for example when they had a gold money yet real growth was phenomenal. A famous anecdote is that a gold coin was worth more at Queen Victoria's death than at her birth... i.e. deflation and this during a period famous for its growth (Industrial Revolution).
Actually Felix, nothing is "measurable". If you observe just a bit more closely (say, for example, what you might refer to as a white cup,) notice that the instant you measure it, you've abstracted some features from an immeasurable experience.
The proof of this is that even the most recalcitrant positivists like Dennett and Churchland admit that as yet, there is no explanation for qualia (Dennett goes back and forth on this and Churchland assures us that it will be measured though not yet); that is, there is no way to account for the subjective "feel" of color, sound, etc.
In other words, nothing we experience is measurable. The instant you measure if, you factor out the entirety of the experience (I almost wrote "99%" of the experience, which, rather than proving your point, just demonstrates how much I have been conditioned by what Charles accurately refers to as the 400+ year old culture that has gotten us into this dire mess.
I would have added - Charles hasn't said it outright here, though I thought he might have in the Ascent book - the 400 year old psychotic/autistic culture.
Charles, if you want to read an extraordinary elaboration of the themes of all your writing, see Iain McGilchrist's "The Master and His Emissary". Extraordinary. As a psychologist, I'm intrigued by neuroscience, though I have yet to find much that does more than recycle old psychological wisdom in brain terms. But I have to say, due to, I think, McGilchrist's years of humanities training, he manages to humanize neuroscience and speaks some truly wise words in his book - beautifully and poetically, at times, as well.
"Science only deals with observable reality; it just happens that most observable things are measurable"
You are under the spell of the reductionist paradigm. All cultures base their knowledge systems on what is observable, but most of what is observable in our world is not measurable.
We observe love, caring, altruism, selflessness - in fact, few things are more real - yet none of them are quantifiable without destructive reduction.
My last comment was in response to Felix Pleșoianu (I thought it would be evident but it is not). Here are some further responses to his comments:
"When neuroscience became involved, it turned out humans have fairness hardwired into the brain."
In fact, the most recent neuroscience has demonstrated just how malleable is the wiring in our brains, and that it is intimately determined by our cultural environment and daily experience. The only thing that is truly hardwired is the pre-conscious fight-or-flight response.
"That doesn't mean throwing reason out the window is a good idea. Especially nowadays, with all the hard problems facing humankind."
But no one is suggesting throwing reason out the window, just taking it off its pedestal, particularly since a good argument can be made that our over-reliance on reason, science and technology is at the root of all current global crises.
Your answer (and that of all reason-based disciplines and disciples) will be that the problems are really due to the failure or inadequacy of applying reason (such as you erroneously suggest for economics) - but that is a circular argument.
In response to Charles' wonderful article:
You either inadvertently or deliberately conflated key economic and sociological terms, such as "utility" with either "goodness" or "well-being", or were merely describing how those terms are confused within the discipline of economics.
"Utility" simply means usefulness, and modern economics has confused the useful with the good. And the meaning of "useful" is entirely dependent on the goals or ends one seeks or desires.
That an economic trade (in an ideal world) is an exchange of utility does not mean that there is an exchange of happiness or well-being. Utility is aimed more at necessity than pleasure, and it can be argued that few modern economic "goods" are useful. Or, if useful, it is toward unnecessary if not harmful ends.
I was struck by the term "usury-based culture", as "usury" does not just suggest the exploitation of interest-bearing debt, but also the exploitation of both things and people as useful means toward our personal ends. "Usury", "use", "useful" and "utility" are clearly related concepts.
Perhaps we need to stop using things and people and start appreciating them for their intrinsic value. How much more happiness is available from simply appreciating a natural ecosystem or a talented person than from using them for my immediate benefit?
Hi Robert:
Thanks for your extra comments. you expressed better than I could have the futility of reducing all things to measurement.
Best,
Don
"How much more happiness is available from simply appreciating a natural ecosystem or a talented person than from using them for my immediate benefit?"
I wonder what it would look like if we collaborated with that natural ecosystem or talented person instead of using them for our own benefit.
"...a good argument can be made that our over-reliance on reason, science and technology is at the root of all current global crises."
I only have one answer for people who disparage science and technology: do you wear glasses? Take medication? Own a TV set? How about a refrigerator? Throw them all out, you hypocrite. Tear out the water pipes and lightbulbs in your house. Come to think of it, go live in a wooden house in the forest. Oh, and build it yourself.
As for reason, maybe you want back in the Dark Ages, when non-whites were considered animals, women were all but slaves and any novel idea or invention was deemed the work of the devil. Oh, and your typical form of government was an unchecked tyranny.
Yes, capitalism has jumped the shark, and our modern democracies barely qualify as such, but at least we have a good chance to change all that without untold millions dying horribly. And it's all because we live in a world where nearly everyone has access to education, and comforts people couldn't dream of a couple of centuries ago.
"Your answer (and that of all reason-based disciplines and disciples) will be that..."
Oh, and don't put words in my mouth.
Folks, let's not argue against straw men nor predict what others will say before they say it.
Felix, Robert is talking about over-relying on -- not abandoning -- science, technology, and reason entirely.
Robert, I don't think it helps the conversation to predict in advance how someone else will respond.
And while we're at it, let's not take ourselves too seriously or forget the need to laugh. We're only dealing with the plight of the world, right? (I'm referencing John Cleese who said that humor is entirely appropriate even for important and serious matters: http://www.brainpickings.org/index.php/2012/04/12/john-cleese-on-creativ...)
Seth said: "I wonder what it would look like if we collaborated with that natural ecosystem or talented person instead of using them for our own benefit."
It would appear magical, for when we engage intimately, respectfully and humbly with the world the outcome often exceeds what logic and reason would expect.
"Oh, and don't put words in my mouth."
I didn't have to. Your answer was precisely as expected for a true believer who attacks the messenger whenever his dogma is even mildly challenged.
That you "only have one answer" proves that you are unable to see outside of a very narrow paradigmatic box.
[By the way, not that it effects the veracity of my argument, but I live in the woods in a 300 SF cabin with no indoor plumbing and a composting outhouse.]
OK Robert, Felix, you're valued sharing community members, but the conversation is turning toxic and falling outside of our community guidelines which encourage people to be excellent to one another and at a minimum, not insult one another. So can we please dial the vitriol down a few notches? Let's talk about ideas, disagree where we may, and avoid personal attacks. Or just stop for now. Thanks, Neal
"Luckily, people are already trying better ways to live, some new, some very old. I'd rather help them than rant against a dying system."
Ranting against a should-be dying system IS helping people see. They need first to see that it is dying. Yes, some people are trying better ways, but not nearly enough. Charles' "rantings" are shining a light for many to join a better way.
Hi Jennifer - I agree - seeing that trying better ways is not enough; that there is a whole system that is dying is essential. Now, I hope that I don't appear to be excessively accommodating here - but I'd like to follow up on Neal's comment.
Do we only want to reach people who already see the system is dying, or do we want to reach others as well? Personally, I think the single most important thing to see is that underlying all the economic/environmental/social problems that Charles points to, is a fundamental - perhaps "the" fundamental error of modern civilization - the belief (not just mental, but emotional/physical/visceral belief) in an inherently existent, purely objective, material world.
Now, I'm guessing that I may have pushed some buttons in those who otherwise agree with Charles (and my guess is this may have pushed Felix' buttons as well). So we could proceed with a new set of rants, with increasing rancor, or attempt a dialogic turn.
About 10 years ago, I set out to write the first several chapters of a book on yoga psychology, and the opening section challenged materialism (or "physicalism" as it's called, since nobody believes in old fashioned, 19th century matter any more). It was quite argumentative, and I had the great good fortune to speak with a retired philosophy professor, who suggested I take a neutral view - namely, that the scientific method does not require a particular philosophy - it is equally compatible with materialism, dualism, idealism, nondualism, etc.
Since then, I've had many fruitful conversations with materialist/physicalist skeptics that might otherwise have gone nowhere (I still have encounters with skeptics - otherwise more properly known as "debunkers" - who are impervious to rationality, but I'm not claiming a 100% perfect record), and I've found this "neutral' approach wonderful in terms of encouraging dialog. (Last summer I put some of my latest ideas into a paper called "Shaving Science With Ockham's Razor", which is posted over at www.integralworld.net; a number of skeptics - passionately anti-psi, anti non dualism skeptics - have responded, and though i don't agree with most of their comments, they have helped me to see what was limited or incorrect in my paper and have been helped a great deal to make quite a number of refinements)
The fundamental idea is that rather than facing off against each other, we deeply respect our differing views, but start out on the same side - we establish at the start that our aim is genuine knowledge and understanding, and a strengthening of science against superstition.
President Obama made a brilliant suggestion along these lines which I'm afraid has gotten very little attention. About abortion, he said, "What if we all agree on the goal - as few abortions as possible (he may have said no abortions) and then, with a shared goal, we can talk together about our differences in regard to how to get there" (somewhat ironically, this makes it clearer that conservatives favor government intervention and liberals favor personal responsibility)
To come back to the present conversation, Jennifer, Robert, myself and - it seems - most others except Felix share Charles' deep, profound concern regarding what could be called the excessively "objectivist" or "rationalist" perspective which underlies present day economic thinking and leads to alienation from the world, our selves and - if I may say it - Spirit.
But Felix, as far as I can tell, shares all of our concern for a better world, and i suspect that his vision of a better world may be quite similar to the rest of us here.
So rather than attacking Felix for not seeing Charles' point about the problems with excessive reliance on alienating rationality, we could use this golden opportunity to reach out to someone who shares our goals and find out if there's perhaps another way of talking about this that might help him connect with what Charles is saying.
And in the course of making this effort, we might come up with some visionary thinking that we could share with our local Occupy movements?
Hi Jennifer - I agree - seeing that trying better ways is not enough; that there is a whole system that is dying is essential. Now, I hope that I don't appear to be excessively accommodating here - but I'd like to follow up on Neal's comment.
Do we only want to reach people who already see the system is dying, or do we want to reach others as well? Personally, I think the single most important thing to see is that underlying all the economic/environmental/social problems that Charles points to, is a fundamental - perhaps "the" fundamental error of modern civilization - the belief (not just mental, but emotional/physical/visceral belief) in an inherently existent, purely objective, material world.
Now, I'm guessing that I may have pushed some buttons in those who otherwise agree with Charles (and my guess is this may have pushed Felix' buttons as well). So we could proceed with a new set of rants, with increasing rancor, or attempt a dialogic turn.
About 10 years ago, I set out to write the first several chapters of a book on yoga psychology, and the opening section challenged materialism (or "physicalism" as it's called, since nobody believes in old fashioned, 19th century matter any more). It was quite argumentative, and I had the great good fortune to speak with a retired philosophy professor, who suggested I take a neutral view - namely, that the scientific method does not require a particular philosophy - it is equally compatible with materialism, dualism, idealism, nondualism, etc.
Since then, I've had many fruitful conversations with materialist/physicalist skeptics that might otherwise have gone nowhere (I still have encounters with skeptics - otherwise more properly known as "debunkers" - who are impervious to rationality, but I'm not claiming a 100% perfect record), and I've found this "neutral' approach wonderful in terms of encouraging dialog. (Last summer I put some of my latest ideas into a paper called "Shaving Science With Ockham's Razor", which is posted over at www.integralworld.net; a number of skeptics - passionately anti-psi, anti non dualism skeptics - have responded, and though i don't agree with most of their comments, they have helped me to see what was limited or incorrect in my paper and have been helped a great deal to make quite a number of refinements)
The fundamental idea is that rather than facing off against each other, we deeply respect our differing views, but start out on the same side - we establish at the start that our aim is genuine knowledge and understanding, and a strengthening of science against superstition.
President Obama made a brilliant suggestion along these lines which I'm afraid has gotten very little attention. About abortion, he said, "What if we all agree on the goal - as few abortions as possible (he may have said no abortions) and then, with a shared goal, we can talk together about our differences in regard to how to get there" (somewhat ironically, this makes it clearer that conservatives favor government intervention and liberals favor personal responsibility)
To come back to the present conversation, Jennifer, Robert, myself and - it seems - most others except Felix share Charles' deep, profound concern regarding what could be called the excessively "objectivist" or "rationalist" perspective which underlies present day economic thinking and leads to alienation from the world, our selves and - if I may say it - Spirit.
But Felix, as far as I can tell, shares all of our concern for a better world, and i suspect that his vision of a better world may be quite similar to the rest of us here.
So rather than attacking Felix for not seeing Charles' point about the problems with excessive reliance on alienating rationality, we could use this golden opportunity to reach out to someone who shares our goals and find out if there's perhaps another way of talking about this that might help him connect with what Charles is saying.
And in the course of making this effort, we might come up with some visionary thinking that we could share with our local Occupy movements?
apologies for the extra post
Felix, the quote was attributed to the beliefs of misguided policy makers who do not recognize the truth of what you speak. You are underscoring the point the author is making in the article.
I agree with the spirit of the article, but not the content. There appear to be many misconceptions about economics here. I'd like to respond to a few of them, and to a few of the comments.
1) Yes, GDP is flawed. GDP only recognizes goods exchanged in the market, but economists recognize that there are many "goods" that are not exchanged in the market. These often fall in the categories of "household production" and "environmental goods." Traditionally they haven't shown up in GDP because they are difficult to measure. Economists recognize this and would love something better than GDP, since greater GDP itself is not the goal of economics; greater quality of life is.
2) Why measure things? To aid in decision-making. If you're driving to a city you've never been to and each of your friends suggests a different route, you'd want some information about each of the routes in order to make your decision. Metaphorically, traditionally economics has tried to draw maps (i.e., models: inaccurate but useful representations of the real world) to try and calculate the fastest route (greatest GDP).
These "maps" have ignored less-quantifiable characteristics such as scenic beauty and road quality (e.g., community, relationship quality, environmental goods, etc.). Describing these "non-market" characteristics (whether or not condensed into a number) is useful in determining the best route. More recently, economics has spent a lot of time trying to measure such non-market goods (like ecosystem services, happiness from visiting a lake, etc.) through contingent valuation, hedonic pricing, and travel cost methods.
You're right. It's not perfect. But it does help in decision-making when you need to decide the best route to go. You could just sit down and have a long conversation with your friends about the pros and cons of each route, but perhaps the friend with the best debating skills will win, not the one with the best route. If all decisions in our political system looked like this, it is highly likely that politicians would always side with their friends and supporters, since decisions would be much more subjective. This reminds me of elementary school playground rules, not the kind of world I want to live in. (Theoretically we could all vote on every decision, but that is impractical. Hence our system of representation, not direct democracy.)
3) Praxeologue is correct. Your idea that more people must become indebted for growth to occur is false. See the classic "gains from trade" idea in economics.
4) Economists use the term "utility" to mean happiness. Something doesn't have to be technically "useful" to give you happiness. The commenter who suggested that economics is just concerned with "useful" things is incorrect.
Thanks for your time in reading my response.
Misconceptions? Or merely a more holistic perspective on an overly specialized and hence dysfunctionally narrow field of study
You say: "Why measure things? To aid in decision-making."
Contrary to "scientific" economic theory, most people don't base decisions on a purely (or even predominantly) rational basis. The most important decisions in life, such as whom to marry, are made on a "gut" or intuitive basis. The most important things in life - those that make us truly happy - are not quantifiable.
Even your example of which route to drive, may depend as much on a sense of how interesting each option might be or on how much we trust the one recommending it, as on the mere distance or ease of travel.
In a monetized economy, the overall market cannot grow without an increase in the medium of exchange, and if money enters the market only or primarily through debt, then Eisenstein is quite correct. This is the dominant mode of economic growth in all modern economies and the reason that almost all developed nations are facing a debt crisis as a growth-dependent economy reaches its natural limits.
While economic theory does confuse utility with happiness, it is more accurately equated with consumer preference (Bentham called it the "pleasure principle), which is as much artificial as essential; and there is a threshold of commodity possession beyond which people and populations become less, rather than more, happy - which has far more to do with quality of human relations (something that economists cannot measure) than with quantity of "stuff".
These things are not "observations" they are "feelings". You may claim to observe them in yourself or others, but this is not what is meant by the word observation. None of these things are observable, only felt subjectively. You may infer their presence in the minds of others through observation of behaviors and words, but the emotions (and especially their intensities) can't be "observed" in any sense that this word is used or meant here.
"emotions (and especially their intensities) can't be "observed" in any sense that this word is used or meant here."
Then you might consider expanding your concept of "observe" to that which is meant by all sentient beings throughout time, rather than the extremely narrow, materialistic sense that science has imposed on us.
Observe (verb):
1) to see, watch, perceive, or notice
2) to regard with attention, especially so as to see or learn something
If we narrow our observation to quantifiable events or things, then we miss most of what happens in our universe, and we become far less than fully human.
Melissa: No, utility is only a fictional presumption of usefuless or satisfaction in a purchase. It neither indicates happiness, nor does it accurately reflect real purchasing inclinations, as it turns out. The fact that many people translate utility into "happeness" in economics courses is a communication problem.
When I was first introduced to the concept it would have been easy to confuse happiness with utility because my friend was using the last spoonful of soup in his bowl, saying that he was indifferent to the amount of food in the bowl (he was already full) and the fraction of the bill that it represented, thus the leftovers had zero or negative utility, but that is not the same as saying he was happy.
I have not stated any disagreement with your concept.
While you are correct in all of your sentences, you are not recognizing the context in which the other statements have been given, namely, the article presents particular notions of how the world is as negative examples, or poor understandings. The fact that you disagree with the belief merely indicates you agree with the article, but your tone indicates you think it somehow debunks.
So, in this example, I am merely indicating how someone has misconstrued another person's words.
Example "science deals with observations" has a particular meaning of "observation." My pointing this out does not indicate that I think feelings don't exist, or that you can't observe them in yourself, merely that they are not observations according to the definition used in the first comment.
I see this error many times in these comments. One says "If A thinks B he will also think C, but since B is wrong, then D!" and then someone else comes along and says "But B is false!"
Do you see the error? Missing the forest for the trees.
A fourth person said it makes sense that C follows B because A believes G, and then someone else says, but G is false! then I point out that G is what A believes, and you (Robert) suggest that I should reconsider the meaning of G. I was only pointing out the definition of G. Do you see the error? I am making a logical distinction, not stating any personal opinion of my own.
I am not talking about my concept, I am clarifying the concept of the word "observable" in the sense in which it was first used.
Mark Fitzsimmons, you're engaging in sophistry rather than honest debate.
But the original statement, that "Science only deals with observable reality" is false on its face. Atomic-scale, subatomic and quantum events are not only not observable in any recognizable sense, but are "measurable" only as probabilities. Moreover, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle has demonstrated that both of two complementary subatomic qualities, such as position and momentum, can never be measured at the same time.
Kelvin quantified absolute zero, but the third law of thermodynamics states that such a temperature can be approached but never reached and hence never observed.
And there is an entire field of science studying PSI phenomena, which seem to defy all known laws of physics and have been dismissed for centuries by science in spite of being routinely observed and even at times measured.
Einstein developed the theory of special relativity without having observed any phenomena. Particle physicists routinely determine the probably existence of new subatomic particles - even a "god particle" - without observation, and yet observations seem to soon after materialize.
Cutting edge neurobiologists theorize that every human perception, and hence all the conceptions based on them, are purely subjective manipulations of sensory data by the brain with no certainty of correlation with an "objective" reality.
Science, in fact, deals with many things, concepts, and theories that fall well outside the range of observable phenomena. The universe, including our perceptual universe, is far too complex and essentially unknowable to be captured within any narrow conceptual box. There is, in fact, no way that it can be disproved that we don't create our physical reality by thinking it real, and all great scientific theorems begin in the imagination.
Robert, you assert but do not justify 'in a monetized economy, the overall market cannot grow without an increase in the medium of exchange'. Consider a thought experiment. An economy with a fixed amount of money. People still produce goods and services and use the money. The amount of goods and services will increase but the money doesn't, prices fall. This is good deflation, much like the kind you enjoy when buying ever cheaper but better electronic goods. A major flaw in the current economic establishment is the assumption one needs increasing money supply for growth despite countless observations to the contrary (the gold standard corresponded with the industrial revolution, think about it a moment, the fastest real growth in human history on a gold money? Growth with hard money.) Austrian economists who are anti establishment have predicted and explained our current crisis but with no audience which is unsurprising. Who would invite an atheist into the pulpit?
Again, I agree with everything you are saying, but I am not arguing what my beliefs are. I think the article correctly interprets most economic theory to be predicated on disbelief of these things of which you speak. I'm not engaging in sophistry at all. I'm saying that the flaw in modern economic theory is it cannot take these things into account (what you feel, the unmeasurable, the uncertainties of the chaotic, indeterminate universe), which is a similar point that the article makes.
"Consider a thought experiment. An economy with a fixed amount of money. People still produce goods and services and use the money. The amount of goods and services will increase but the money doesn't, prices fall. This is good..."
This assumes, without explanation or justification, that "the amount of goods and services will increase". Any economy which produces more "goods" and offers more "services" than are needed is a false economy, a wasteful economy and one prone to cyclical inflation/deflation. Any economy which incentivizes people to produce more than is needed is a false economy.
And how does the supply of "goods" increase without increased inputs of plant, material and labor? And how is that increase financed without debt if there is insufficient monetary trade to even justify the increased production?
But even such "thought experiments" are unproductive if we do not look beneath the surface of economic theory and practice and discern whether what we call "the economy" serves the real needs of the people or creates false needs and false profits by misleading and misguided incentives.
This is what Charles Eisenstein has brilliantly done, but the acolytes of economic theory persist in arguing details rather than investigating the underlying social purpose of economic relationships that produce real value and meet authentic human (and ecological) needs.
Robert, if people have a money, and produce goods and services, barring some external force then it would be contrary to common experience to not see an increase in goods and services. Again, think of the industrial revolution as a major refutation. And let's not be too sniffy about an increase in goods and services being a false economy, a wasteful economy, prone to inflation etc.etc. Lots of non sequiturs in here by the way. Inflation is a monetary phenomenon, you didn't mention the central bank printing the stuff. And if one wishes to exchange one's current lifestyle to live like a peasant from medieval period (less of those wasteful goods and services back the, ah those were the days) it is an option availabe to all but chosen, unsurprisingly, by few.
So just sticking to your 'no growth without more money' point, will you now edit your original article to correct this assertion that given you appear to accept that's not necessarily so? I suspect you willl need to rethink the chain of reasoning that was built around this as well...
By the way, Austrian theory is against the government focus on trying to spur demand via monetary and fiscal means. Excessive consumption is far more easily solved this way than what I suspect are the socialist suggestions you seem to be hinting at.
All the best.
Praxeologue, clearly you and I live on different planets, and don't even speak the same language. Good luck on Eaarth (no, that's not a typo, look it up).
Ah, the old ad hominem response, not the refuge of reason.
Disappointing.
Praxeologue and Robert, I appreciate the contributions you've both made on this comment thread but the last two comments are not taking the conversation in a productive direction. Our community guidelines ask people to be excellent to one another and the thread is trending away from that direction. Let's dial it back toward "excellent". Thank you!
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"In science, only the measurable is real."
I take issue with that. Science only deals with observable reality; it just happens that most observable things are measurable (directly or not). For everything else, there is philosophy. Which, you may notice, is yet to be displaced by more formal disciplines. Besides, not all measurements are meaningful, and science deals with that too.
"Primary among the axioms of economics is the assumption of selfishness – that human beings seek to maximize their rational self-interest, at least in most situations."
Yes, and that is an unscientific belief rooted in the Enlightenment's efforts to promote intellectual pursuits as being superior, itself inspired by the Ancient culture revival. When neuroscience became involved, it turned out humans have fairness hardwired into the brain. That, by the way, is the explanation for the experimental results you mention.
There is indeed an unhealthy obsession with measuring the irrelevant; look at the way we're still schooling kids like in 1850. But people aren't upholding the current economic system out of some misguided conviction that it's good. They do it because *the incumbents are reaping enormous benefits*. That they're also ruining their own future and that of their children is simply too abstract a concept for the average human brain to handle -- another thing neuroscience has demonstrated.
Luckily, people are already trying better ways to live, some new, some very old. I'd rather help them than rant against a dying system.